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	<title>Comments on: Over and out</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.cricket.mailliw.com/archives/2007/04/30/over-and-out/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.cricket.mailliw.com/archives/2007/04/30/over-and-out/</link>
	<description>Peering down the corridor of uncertainty.  It's about cricket, sport and journalism</description>
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		<item>
		<title>By: Coalster</title>
		<link>http://www.cricket.mailliw.com/archives/2007/04/30/over-and-out/comment-page-1/#comment-176334</link>
		<dc:creator>Coalster</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 May 2007 08:42:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cricket.mailliw.com/archives/2007/04/30/over-and-out/#comment-176334</guid>
		<description>I repeat, it doesn&#039;t have to &quot;stay&quot; at 15 degrees.  In the laws as they stand, the arm can straighten by up to 15 degrees and it is not a throw.

So to labour the point, if the arm is bent at 35 degrees to start with, and at no point is straighter than 20 degrees, then that would be a valid delivery.

If photo evidence is so conclusive, why has it not been collated and presented in one place before now?
Photos, like TV pictures foreshorten the image so are not necessarily conclusive anyway (look up foreshortening on wikipedia), but the biomechanical tests undertaken at the University of Western Australia are more accurate.

Also in Murali&#039;s defence is the footage shot of him bowling wearing a brace on his elbow which physically prevented the elbow from moving more than allowed.

The law is an ass in that having a degree of tolerance in the straightening means that its not clear cut what is a throw, however, all bowlers straighten their arm to some degree (reference: http://sport.independent.co.uk/cricket/article320493.ece) so its a necessary evil.

However, some people are so one-eyed that they choose to simply dismiss the available scientific evidence and claim things that have been shown to be untrue</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I repeat, it doesn&#8217;t have to &#8220;stay&#8221; at 15 degrees.  In the laws as they stand, the arm can straighten by up to 15 degrees and it is not a throw.</p>
<p>So to labour the point, if the arm is bent at 35 degrees to start with, and at no point is straighter than 20 degrees, then that would be a valid delivery.</p>
<p>If photo evidence is so conclusive, why has it not been collated and presented in one place before now?<br />
Photos, like TV pictures foreshorten the image so are not necessarily conclusive anyway (look up foreshortening on wikipedia), but the biomechanical tests undertaken at the University of Western Australia are more accurate.</p>
<p>Also in Murali&#8217;s defence is the footage shot of him bowling wearing a brace on his elbow which physically prevented the elbow from moving more than allowed.</p>
<p>The law is an ass in that having a degree of tolerance in the straightening means that its not clear cut what is a throw, however, all bowlers straighten their arm to some degree (reference: <a href="http://sport.independent.co.uk/cricket/article320493.ece)" rel="nofollow">http://sport.independent.co.uk/cricket/article320493.ece)</a> so its a necessary evil.</p>
<p>However, some people are so one-eyed that they choose to simply dismiss the available scientific evidence and claim things that have been shown to be untrue</p>
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		<title>By: Michael</title>
		<link>http://www.cricket.mailliw.com/archives/2007/04/30/over-and-out/comment-page-1/#comment-176328</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 May 2007 00:34:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cricket.mailliw.com/archives/2007/04/30/over-and-out/#comment-176328</guid>
		<description>Just go download a few photo&#039;s of Murali bowling. Quite conclusive - massive bending but massive straightening.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just go download a few photo&#8217;s of Murali bowling. Quite conclusive &#8211; massive bending but massive straightening.</p>
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		<title>By: Reverse Swing</title>
		<link>http://www.cricket.mailliw.com/archives/2007/04/30/over-and-out/comment-page-1/#comment-176319</link>
		<dc:creator>Reverse Swing</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 May 2007 21:15:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cricket.mailliw.com/archives/2007/04/30/over-and-out/#comment-176319</guid>
		<description>Yes, but Murali&#039;s arm patently doesn&#039;t &#039;stay&#039; at 15 degrees throughout delivery.

When he bowls the doosra it starts at around 50 degrees, and ends up pretty straight.

That&#039;s a throw.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, but Murali&#8217;s arm patently doesn&#8217;t &#8217;stay&#8217; at 15 degrees throughout delivery.</p>
<p>When he bowls the doosra it starts at around 50 degrees, and ends up pretty straight.</p>
<p>That&#8217;s a throw.</p>
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		<title>By: Coalster</title>
		<link>http://www.cricket.mailliw.com/archives/2007/04/30/over-and-out/comment-page-1/#comment-176276</link>
		<dc:creator>Coalster</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 May 2007 08:46:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cricket.mailliw.com/archives/2007/04/30/over-and-out/#comment-176276</guid>
		<description>I never thought I&#039;d be sticking up for Murali, but the point is not whether the arm is bent, but by how much it straightens - that is the 15 degree (not percent) allowance.

If the arm is bent at a right angle, and it stays bent at a right angle (or up to 15 degrees straighter) throughout, then it is a legal delivery</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I never thought I&#8217;d be sticking up for Murali, but the point is not whether the arm is bent, but by how much it straightens &#8211; that is the 15 degree (not percent) allowance.</p>
<p>If the arm is bent at a right angle, and it stays bent at a right angle (or up to 15 degrees straighter) throughout, then it is a legal delivery</p>
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		<title>By: Reverse Swing</title>
		<link>http://www.cricket.mailliw.com/archives/2007/04/30/over-and-out/comment-page-1/#comment-176186</link>
		<dc:creator>Reverse Swing</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 May 2007 17:40:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cricket.mailliw.com/archives/2007/04/30/over-and-out/#comment-176186</guid>
		<description>There&#039;s a world of difference between the &#039;bend&#039; in Shaun Taits arm (or Freddies arm) and the bend in Murali&#039;s arm when he bowls his doosra.  

The ICC granted a &#039;degree of difficulty&#039; of 15% - but take a look at some photos of Murali bowling and you can see an angle of nearer 45 degrees.

Yes, he&#039;s a wonderful character and human being - friends of mine at Lancashire say he was fantastic when he played there a few years ago... but he&#039;s still a cheat.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There&#8217;s a world of difference between the &#8216;bend&#8217; in Shaun Taits arm (or Freddies arm) and the bend in Murali&#8217;s arm when he bowls his doosra.  </p>
<p>The ICC granted a &#8216;degree of difficulty&#8217; of 15% &#8211; but take a look at some photos of Murali bowling and you can see an angle of nearer 45 degrees.</p>
<p>Yes, he&#8217;s a wonderful character and human being &#8211; friends of mine at Lancashire say he was fantastic when he played there a few years ago&#8230; but he&#8217;s still a cheat.</p>
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		<title>By: Ian</title>
		<link>http://www.cricket.mailliw.com/archives/2007/04/30/over-and-out/comment-page-1/#comment-176176</link>
		<dc:creator>Ian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 May 2007 12:52:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cricket.mailliw.com/archives/2007/04/30/over-and-out/#comment-176176</guid>
		<description>Is that not the crux of the Murali question? It looks like a throw, but it has been proved it isn&#039;t. There were matches in the WC, when a few of us agreed that Shaun Tait &#039;looked&#039; like he was chucking it. He wasn&#039;t, but he looked like he was. Freddy sometimes &#039;looks&#039; like he&#039;s throwing it. He isn&#039;t. 

My point is that until Murali is no-balled in the match by the umpire or sanctioned by the ICC, then he isn&#039;t a chucker and should be left alone. Shouting &#039;no-ball&#039; whenever he runs in is unfair and a bit football... 

Or am I being soft? Personally, I think the guy&#039;s a genius and one of the great cricketing characters.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Is that not the crux of the Murali question? It looks like a throw, but it has been proved it isn&#8217;t. There were matches in the WC, when a few of us agreed that Shaun Tait &#8216;looked&#8217; like he was chucking it. He wasn&#8217;t, but he looked like he was. Freddy sometimes &#8216;looks&#8217; like he&#8217;s throwing it. He isn&#8217;t. </p>
<p>My point is that until Murali is no-balled in the match by the umpire or sanctioned by the ICC, then he isn&#8217;t a chucker and should be left alone. Shouting &#8216;no-ball&#8217; whenever he runs in is unfair and a bit football&#8230; </p>
<p>Or am I being soft? Personally, I think the guy&#8217;s a genius and one of the great cricketing characters.</p>
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		<title>By: Reverse Swing</title>
		<link>http://www.cricket.mailliw.com/archives/2007/04/30/over-and-out/comment-page-1/#comment-176152</link>
		<dc:creator>Reverse Swing</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 May 2007 20:58:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cricket.mailliw.com/archives/2007/04/30/over-and-out/#comment-176152</guid>
		<description>No, they can&#039;t &#039;just let it go&#039; Ian - and they are quite right not to, bearing in mind the authorities have totally washed their hands in such a cowardly manner.

I was amazed to find, during the Sri Lanka/New Zealand semi just how easy it was to pick Murali&#039;s doosra... because the arm is SO bent at the point of delivery swhen he &#039;bowls&#039; it that it&#039;s impossible to miss it.

In my book, that&#039;s a throw. It&#039;s a scandal that he&#039;s been able to get away with it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No, they can&#8217;t &#8216;just let it go&#8217; Ian &#8211; and they are quite right not to, bearing in mind the authorities have totally washed their hands in such a cowardly manner.</p>
<p>I was amazed to find, during the Sri Lanka/New Zealand semi just how easy it was to pick Murali&#8217;s doosra&#8230; because the arm is SO bent at the point of delivery swhen he &#8216;bowls&#8217; it that it&#8217;s impossible to miss it.</p>
<p>In my book, that&#8217;s a throw. It&#8217;s a scandal that he&#8217;s been able to get away with it.</p>
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		<title>By: glamorous_organ</title>
		<link>http://www.cricket.mailliw.com/archives/2007/04/30/over-and-out/comment-page-1/#comment-176104</link>
		<dc:creator>glamorous_organ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 May 2007 14:40:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cricket.mailliw.com/archives/2007/04/30/over-and-out/#comment-176104</guid>
		<description>Well stirred Ian.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well stirred Ian.</p>
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		<title>By: Ian</title>
		<link>http://www.cricket.mailliw.com/archives/2007/04/30/over-and-out/comment-page-1/#comment-176098</link>
		<dc:creator>Ian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 May 2007 10:07:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cricket.mailliw.com/archives/2007/04/30/over-and-out/#comment-176098</guid>
		<description>Fair call, Rusty. I sat down to write a piece entirely in praise of Australian cricket and somehow the odd snide remark crept in. I probably need therapy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fair call, Rusty. I sat down to write a piece entirely in praise of Australian cricket and somehow the odd snide remark crept in. I probably need therapy.</p>
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		<title>By: Rusty</title>
		<link>http://www.cricket.mailliw.com/archives/2007/04/30/over-and-out/comment-page-1/#comment-176071</link>
		<dc:creator>Rusty</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Apr 2007 20:51:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cricket.mailliw.com/archives/2007/04/30/over-and-out/#comment-176071</guid>
		<description>Ian, &lt;b&gt;you&lt;/b&gt;&lt;b&gt; just can&#039;t let it go, can you?&lt;/b&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ian, <b>you</b><b> just can&#8217;t let it go, can you?</b></p>
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		<title>By: Michael</title>
		<link>http://www.cricket.mailliw.com/archives/2007/04/30/over-and-out/comment-page-1/#comment-176070</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Apr 2007 19:49:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cricket.mailliw.com/archives/2007/04/30/over-and-out/#comment-176070</guid>
		<description>Who&#039;s reading &quot;Speed could face no-confidence motion&quot; on CricInfo? 

From the BCCI:

&lt;i&gt;&quot;We are not that satisfied,&quot; Shah told the newspaper. &quot;It is becoming more and more bureaucratic. My board is of the belief that cricket is a simple, enjoyable game, but that is not how it appears at present.&lt;/i&gt;

I think I nearly choked. Cast the first stone why don&#039;t you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Who&#8217;s reading &#8220;Speed could face no-confidence motion&#8221; on CricInfo? </p>
<p>From the BCCI:</p>
<p><i>&#8220;We are not that satisfied,&#8221; Shah told the newspaper. &#8220;It is becoming more and more bureaucratic. My board is of the belief that cricket is a simple, enjoyable game, but that is not how it appears at present.</i></p>
<p>I think I nearly choked. Cast the first stone why don&#8217;t you.</p>
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