Well someone had to ask. Should Geraint Jones retire? Even by his own disappointing standards, his performance in this Test verged on the comical, culminating in a ridiculous, careless dismissal today when he was run out by Ponting at silly mid-off (I think that’s where he was, anyway).
Time to go? He’s on the selection panel for this series and, seeing as Duncan Fletcher won’t sack/drop anyone who helped win the Ashes in 2005, perhaps it’s time Jones did it for him. Desperate times call for outlandish remarks…
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Dropped yes, retire no. He hasn’t batted anywhere near his potential and kept, quite frankly, shithouse. However to retire is a tad extreme, as I still beleive he is handy player on the occasions he is in form.
Players who have had decision in selection have been dropped before: Healy, Warne, and Steve Waugh was extremely close (those names just came to my head immediately). The English selectors need to grow a spine and put players on merit rather than past history, and most importantly roll the dice on a few players. Play Joyce instead of the meaningless fifth bowler (Mahmood hardly bowled in Perth), and by using an extra batsman it plays less pressure on Jones or Read to produce runs as a ‘Gilchrist’ wicketkeeper runmachine. Put Peitersen at fourth, merely as to stablise the middle order and it gives him a chance to be involved, and control the game at an earlier point.
Drastic changes are need to save face, but Jones stepping aside won’t do much. If anything I think it places more pressure on Read to produce and be a better all-round player than his predessor.
Although it is posssible Geriant Jones is not the best man for the job and could/ prob should be replaced, to look at the australian team that has/ it seems rarely changed much over the years, is replacing 1 or 2 of our team going to turn us into a team cpable of beating Australia in Australia!?? I think not! Although the Introduction on Monty was indeed the biggest step towards creating a team who showed promise. I think the boys have tried and I am still behind them but, its pianful to watch sometimes
I agree with Tom about playing the extra batsman in place of the 5th bowler – especially as Monty seems to be settling into Test cricket nicely. With Hoggy to swing it, Monty to spin it and Freddie and Harmy to bowl the fast stuff, what can an additional bowler bring to the party?
If Read doesn’t play in the next Test it will be an injustice. Jones has repreatedly failed while Read seems to have been batting well in the practice games.
To a certain extent you can see why the selectors would want to keep as many of the 2005 side as possible (after all, they do know how to beat the Aussies) – but that loyalty should only extent so far. It’s amazing that anyone would think that Giles, who had been out of the game for a year (and under the knife too!) deserved to play in front of Monty (who Fletch called the best finger spinner in the world less than 4 months ago). But from all accounts Freddie had a say in that too, so it’s not all Fletch’s fault.
Freddie does really seem to be the next Botham – great batsman, great bowler, tremendous slipper, ……. and a uninspiring captain! We’ve certainly missed Vaughan’s leadership.
He will certainly be dropped – again, and for the final time. Read will then have two Tests to prove himself, though I suspect the selectors are considering other options Matt Prior, James Foster and even Steven Davies.
Well at least you put it out there for debate, Will. We may as well get the ridiculous over and done with early.
I don’t think he should consider retiring – he must be younger than 90% of the Aussie team, and therefore still up for learning and improving for many years. I really suspect there is a lot we don’t know here. From odd comments from players here and there over the last couple of years, my impression is that he contributes a great deal as a team player. I’m sure many of you will scoff and say well that won’t hold catches or score runs, but personally I like it. We come back to the old argument that he has tried his best and didn’t asked to be picked above Read. Infact he wasn’t expecting it for Brisbane, so we hear.
I think Read should get a go now, as maintaining stability is not an issue anymore. But can someone help my memory for a moment – was it Read who lost his temper on the boundary of a first class match sometime earlier this year? Some run in with a spectator or something? If so, doesn’t this give us a clue as to the relative temperaments of the two, and therefore Fletcher’s (or Freddie’s) attraction to selecting Jones?
We don’t know yet that Read wouldn’t be a great team player, either, since he’s hardly been given a chance. But he would certainly score more runs, and hold more catches. Otherwise, you might as well play Geoff Boycott’s mum for the team spirit (mind you, from what Boycs says, the selectors have really missed out by ignoring Mrs B…) Anyway, as 12th man carrying the drinks, he could still contribute to the team.
He may not have asked to be picked, and may not have expected it, and I’m sure he did his best, but frankly, there was no way he should have been playing. Remember last summer when he broke/dislocated his finger, and got dropped, and Fletcher specifically said it was NOT the finger, but the batting that was behind it? Well, his batting did not improve (facing Warne at Canterbury showed that!) and Read did a brilliant job. Then got dropped. As you do. Maybe Fletcher does think he has a temperament problem, and doesn’t want to play him. Fine, but why take him as back up? There are alternatives (better wicker keepers, who can actually bat) such as Foster (7 Tests, average 25) or Prior (Avg. 20 in ODIs).
Look, I don’t have anything against Jones, like I don’t against Giles or Anderson, and I know it’s harsh to blame them, after all they did their best, I’m sure, but their selection was outrageous, especially Giles’. We will never know if the 3-0 score would be the same had we played out best team, but it’s too late now. And it hurts.
We need Jones and England to do what Cyril Washbrook did in 1956, only with the opposite result. Washbrook was 41 and a selector, but England had such batting problems that it was suggested he might receive a recall five years after his last Test. Washbrook decided to leave the room while the rest of the selection panel deliberated and returned to be told that he was in. He made 98 in his first Test back.
So Jones needs to leave the room when the panel discuss the wicketkeeping options – and hopefully not come back
Read needs a chance to prove himself. Jones had test after test to prove himself and he had failed. I am sure he’s a good bloke and adds to the team in more ways than simply wicketkeeper but at the end of the day that’s the position he’s in for. Read needs to be given the chance to shine and if he doesn’t, then we need to consider other options. Prior? His main claim to fame at the minute is as a forgotten man but he’s nifty with the gloves. Maybe give him a try? Jones doesn’t deserve to keep his place; even if he’s matey with the selectors.
Can anyone tell me who is in charge of the england Committee, i think u saw the interview that Graveney gave on Sky, the guy did,nt even know who his bosses were….I think the lack of practice excuse does not fit with me..we cant excuse the non selection of Panesar for the second test…everyone know we should have played 2 spinners….i would like to see the ECB set up a committee of ex england players to select the squads…Gower, Botham, Boycott, Willis and Gatting…all are outspoken but they know which players are in form and how best to get England to turn round there one day team as well..embarrsased by this….OHHHH i AM..Humiliated..over to u peeps!!!
Tim….i think Matt prior will get his chance finally…Chris Reed and GJ have tried there best but are not Batting wicketkeepers like the aussie slasher….
I think there is barely a whisker between Jones and Read, and that’s what makes it tricky for both them and the selectors. Jones, however, does seem to have more of the confidence of the team. And I thought there was nothing wrong with his keeping. It’s funny — when Gilchrist misses a chance, there’s always an excuse, but for Jones the wrath of the world comes down on him.
Gilchrist’s excuses are better than Jones…
“I’m sorry, I was tired from making the second fastest century in Test cricket“
Jones:
“I’m sorry, but my eyesight’s wonky from being kicked in the head every day.”
I agree that the four bowler option is the way to go, especially since none of the fifth bowlers has shown himself to be any better than the part-timers. Give a bowl to Collingswood (who often bowls a full quota in one-day cricket), Pietersen, and even Bell. They may not take a lot of wickets, but they won’t do much worse that the specialist bowlers they replaced.
I guess by default the extra batting place goes to Joyce, though I wouldn’t be totally shocked if Vaughan suddenly parachutes onto the team. Probably not a good idea under normal circumstances, but when you’re down 3-0, a lot of normal reasoning goes out the window. On the other hand, no point in aggravating his injuries in a lost cause, so maybe (hopefully) it won’t happen.
Spot on Skchai: has England management forgotten they have a change bowler in Collingwood? I always thought of him as an alrounder, not a batsman anyway. He might be good for a change of pace, and go for another batsman. But (I don’t believe I’m saying this) not Vaughan yet. No point risking it – wait for the one-dayers.
I can understand why the selectors did not take the extra batsman option. If you have to win (not draw) a test match against a side with the best batting tail in the world, you choose the lineup most likely to take 20 wickets and hope your top-order batsmen will do their job. If they’d been able to pull out a draw at the Gabba they might have had the luxury of looking at a batting-heavy lineup, but going down 1-0 meant that they needed bowlers.
Jones is not at his best with the bat right now, but remember that he was under all sorts of criticism in last year’s Ashes because of his keeping, which was quite good this time (judging by the lack of criticism). I think now they need to give Read or Prior a chance, but I don’t begrudge the selection of Jones to this point.
The interesting debate should be about captaincy. If the test series ends 4-0 or 5-0 and the one-dayers are similarly dismal, do they give the captaincy to Strauss just before the World Cup? Politically, it might make more sense to give the captaincy back to Vaughan if he’s healthy.
I never liked the idea of Flintoff as captain. He does a good job of inspiring the players, but he did that before, too. The Aussies probably would have won against captain Strauss, too, but maybe not 3-0 in 3 matches.
Here we go again. The selectors would be mad if they bring back Vaughen now. He should never be allowed near a one-day arena, let alone sent in to open the batting. Brilliant Test captain, but one-dayers. Oh groan. Don’t go there please, don’t do it!
Having watched both, my not-so-humble opinion is that Read’s glovework is much better than Jones’ – I’d trust him to hold onto catches that Jones would drop, and remember, if a catch is dropped, your bowlers don’t have to take 20 wickets, they have to take 25-30 wickets. I think the difference between the two is the difference between capable and gifted.
And cricketgirl – it’s a good thing some of our cricket players are good wicker keepers, as we appear to be going to hell in a handbasket…;)
Irim, if what you say about the ‘keepers is true, why is it that the bowlers seem to work so much better with Jones? The body language is that they really trust him. If he really were inferior to Read, wouldn’t they be less happy with him?
Kathy, the feedback I’ve received from so-called people-in-the-know back home if that Jones is a true-blue team man, and Read apparently had an attitude problem towards the team and training. That’s about it. They like Jonesey and don’t like Read as much.
Discipline, dedication and a will to win usually works out these problems. Seems to work for the Aussies, doesn’t it?
Kathy I’ll never know who you are but BLOGGER of the YEAR methinks.
‘Invitations to my party
Send Jones an inviting card
Any mean streak from the gutter
But got his kindness from God’
L.R.
Sorry-L.N.
Scuse my denseness, Woodyway, as I didn’t complete a university education, but what do you mean? And what’s the quote?
Ahh I’m glad someone mentioned Steven Davies. The Worcestershire keeper is someone who would make it into any county top six as a batsman. From what I hear he is a better gloveman than Jones, Prior and Foster and he is still only 20. In 28 first class matches he has already scored 4 centuries with a top score of 192. I believe he is out there with the academy right now.
I will throw a name into the hat for a few years time. Somerset’s Sam Spurway. Watch this space.
I’d also like to clear up the extra bowling debate which I think I can do pretty conclusively. It is all to do with Freddie’s foot. I am convinced that, given Monty’s good start in test cricket as a containing and attacking bowler, if there wasn’t the tiniest doubt about Fred’s foot they would have played 7 batsmen. But there was doubt and so a fifth bowler was included.
I think we saw that the extra protection offered by Monty was reflected in the number of overs bowled by Saj Mahmood.
My teams for the last two tests would be very close to:
Strauss
Cook
Bell
Collingwood
Pietersen
Joyce/Dalrymple
Flintoff
Read
Hoggard
Harmison
Panesar
I think there is always a case for playing two spinners in a five man attack and I’m amazed they didn’t play two in Adelaide.
The point regarding the keepers is that Jones had >30 games, consecutively, to prove himself and didn’t do it. Read had about a third of that number in three separate stages and is two years younger. What might he have achieved given similar chances and, more importantly, similar backing from the England management that Jones was luck enough to get?
Whatever, the whole thing has been appallingly mismanaged, and two players who are by no means enemies are looking at the ends of their international careers with one of them 30 years of age and the other 28.Ridiculous. All places should be genuinely competed for, all players of potential international status should be accorded similar treatment, and opportunities and any ‘old pals’ networks dismantled. In all a completely new management set-up, and one with clean hands!
Well, Jones out of the ODI side and Nixon in. Have we not got any younger options? Nixon is as old as some of the Aussies!
This just in: Warnie wants to try out for the England keeper’s job… thinks he can keep up with the Joneses
This also just in: On hearing that Warne might get his job, Jones announced that he wants to try out for the spinner’s slot in the England team. He thinks the selectors might give him a go because he has more guile than Giles.
Perhaps Warne summed him up perfectly. In retaliation for the slegding Warne gave him when he was in bat, Jones decided to give him some when Warne came in to bat.
Warne turned to him with a withering look and said “Don’t try giving me lip – silly boy. You are only the Club Pro”
Enough said
Quote is from Laura Nyro’s album ‘Christmas and The Beads of Sweat’.
Track ‘Blackpatch’.
Why is there so much aggression nowadays? ‘You get it nucklehead’[John Wayne].
I think Shane Warne put it more eloquently and succintly than any one else could – ” Don’t you give me lip, mate, you’re only the Club Pro.”
Enough said
I think Geraint jones Should be england keeper, for the test side, and Nixon should have gloves For ODI’s. Geraint jones was, and is a good keeper, and an able batsmen, he has more potential for read, he has a knack of taking the difficult catches a dropping the hard ones, there was a catch which summed up geraint for me, it was the gratest catch iv ever seen, hayden nicked it to freddy in the slips who dropped it, it hit his theigh and Jones took an amazing one handed catch.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QB3Ts_6177I
then look at time 1:04
Blimey!Never thought I’d read ‘thekeeper’ again.Ofcourse you are correct.Nixon is a first rate work-a-day wkt.but not Test material.
Now where’s Kathy? Just wanted to explain ‘stream of consciousness’and Universities etc.
The notice board was changed so quickly.
if u dont like geraint jones u r mad i fukin hate u he is my hero he has had his bad tines and alot of good jones in in his homes country at the moment papua new guinie he will go back to kent with only his best he has faced sone really bad critasism not fare at all i will allways back jones in every thing he does .i like paul nixoni dont mind him he is funny and disstrakets the batsmanhe has disserved his chance at 36 what a lovly chance
thomas penn
i Agree, so much, Why is matt Prior coming in, because he’s moores favorite, i have no problem with favorites, If we dropped every player who had a bad game/games in australia, then, Bye Bye Ian Bell, Andrew Strauss, Harmison, hoggard, Giles, Jones, AND ANDREW FLINTOFF. But There all diffrent, cause they have played well before….WELL SO HAS JONES. the only two mistakes Duncan fletcher made, was dropping jones, replacing him with Chris Read, who is clearly not liked by anyone, Jones is Loved by All except people who are perfectionists, if they stuck with jones he’d start to get scores, if they Stuck with Read, HE WOULDNT. For ONE Day Games NIXON SHOULD BE keeper, Hes impressed me, However Jones should be Top of the pecking order for tests, behind only mayb Paul nixon.
THE PECKING ORDER AS SHOULD BE…
Nixon
Jones
Sutton (Lancs)
Prior
Read
Foster
There’s a more recent post, so stick your comments on Prior here.
I think Jones should be back in the England side for two reasons.
1. He is coming back into form with a couple of hundreds for Kent
2. Fact: England play better as a team with Jones, he is clearly a popular team member, brings out the best in Flintoff and many others, which is a priceless asset.
I realy miss seing Jones behind the sticks for England, bing back GOJO!!!
geraint jones is a excellent cricketer he is very nice in person.He should be england keeper because his great behind the stumps and with the bat.I miss geraint jones.If england was smart they would
bring him back into the first team.
he clearly does bring out the best in players. even saying he got no runs on aus isnt true. he got as many as everyone else ! !!!! 19 and 33 in first test alone, higher than strauss and cook ! who are supposed to be Specialist batsmen.
Oh!…that's great helpful, it's so right to me! Million thanks for the article,