Agree that the batsmen need to accept their share of the blame, but they shouldn’t have been in that position in the first place.

Seeds of the problem were sewn when England declared at 550-6. What was the rationale behind that decision? Did Flintoff/Fletcher REALLY think we were capable of bowling Australia out twice on such a benign wicket - with a bowling attack that could be described as ‘questionable’ at best.

As soon as we knew that we could get over 600, we should have done just that - regardless of how long it took. The moment we got that, the game would have been a draw, our bowlers would have got a decent, thorough work out and maybe got a few points up on some of their batsmen and we’d have all toddled off to Perth quite happy, and on a bit of an up - looking forward to more ‘result’ wickets later in the series.

Instead, we were destined to have to bat under some pressure on Day 5 when, with a bit of thought, we could have avoided it - maybe having to start at lunchtime instead.

When you’ve got the Aussies on the floor, you must keep them there. Give them half a chance and they take it.

Fletcher needs to take some of the blame for that.

I think you’re partially right - Strauss needed a kick up the backside - but Duncan needs to carry the can here - Peter English’s article at cricinfo is superb and very astute. I’ve always believed that if you want to understand a classroom, look to the teacher. A company? Look to the management. A monastery? Look to the abbot.

A team? Look to the coach.

Duncan Fletcher has been great in terms of rebuilding the team, don’t get me wrong - he’s good at instilling stability and security (central contracts, etc.). But I don’t think he knows what to do once he’s built it. He can’t let go of the retrenchment mentality that serves him so well when building a team from nothing. He’s like a parent with an adolescent child - unable to let go and let them grow and develop independence.

A team’s mindset comes from the top. How is it that Bell, who has been so self-assured and intuitive this series suddenly freezes when called for a reasonable (albeit tight) single? What kind of atmosphere is there that he doesn’t trust his partner - who knew from both a batter’s and excellent fielder’s perspective that it was the right call - to make the calculated risk?

It’s the retrenchment mindset - don’t lose any, rather than go out to win. So when a healthy risk is taken, Bell baulks…b/c he can’t appropriately assess the risk - ANY risk is dangerous. And that’s the atmosphere Duncan has created. Only Vaughan neutralised that to a great extent.

The team reminds me of some of my pupils with overanxious, overcontrolling parents who would freeze when attempting something - at least they wouldn’t fail. But in freezing, they guaranteed failure.

We have a very talented team that needs to be allowed to fly and relish a challenge, not be kept in jesses. They’ve outgrown Fletcher. They need someone who can give them unconditional support and not glower at them even when things are going well, but lets them go out there and get on with it - and who leads from the top, making proactive decisions and taking calculated risks - making it clear that we’re good enough to win and that’s what we’re going out to do…whether we win, lose or draw.

Darren Lehmann, come on down.

Well the players are to be blamed and no one else should be responsible for this.Plyaers are the ones who play on the feild and not the selectors,coaches and managers.

Of course the players on the field bear the responsibility for how they play - I’m not saying they don’t. What I AM saying is that leaders create mindsets - take the same group of pupils and put them with two different teachers…let’s say the same subject, to keep that variable out of the way - and you’ll see two completely different classes.
The point is that Fletcher’s dourness, his lack of joy, his defensiveness permeates the team and affects how they play.

Have you ever worked somewhere with a hypercritical boss? Or extremely negative management? Eventually, it wears even the most confident person down and makes them start second guessing themselves when they’re trying to perform, no matter HOW good they are. YES, you’re responsible, but you soak up the atmosphere you’re in and it affects your performance. You see it in religious communities, schools, companies, homes. And these guys are together at least 9 months out of the year - it IS comparable to any closeknit social unit.

“The Australian” has a word or two to put in:

“Australia only became the world’s champion team when Mark Taylor became captain and brought a positive attitude, sweeping aside Simpson’s ghosts and bringing light where there was fear and darkness.

England needs an enlightened approach for the sake of Panesar and all those who follow him.

It is clearly not going to dawn as long as Fletcher continues to cling to his empire.”

Amen.

Fletcher may not be to blame for the batting but his selections? Ashley Giles needs to be dropped for Panesar at the very least for the next test if England are to gain some teeth in their bowling. Mahmood coming in for Anderson might help too.

Well its all over now guys-no way back from here. In the space of 10 days the series is over. How England managed to contrive this, god only knows. The poms blew it on day 4 when they came out after lunch without a plan and let the game meander and the Aussies post a decent score and seize the initiative. Flintoff must accept the blame there-he calls the shots. The aussies always backed themselves to bowl out the poms on the final day with Warne operating. This was a complete capitulation by the English batsmen and is a return to type after 4 years. This was epitimised by Flintoffs disgraceful shot-do you think Ponting would surrender like that? Giles must go along with Anderson. He can’t bowl and he can’t bowl. The team deserves the kicking in the tabloid press they will undoubtedly receive. Prediction 4-0 Aussie.

As an England fan I don’t think that Duncan Fletcher is been made a scapegoat but hopefully he is being made aware of his responsibility and the fact that the team that he is the coach of has failed miserably yet again. All involved in the team have to look at themselves and accept their part in the capitulation that took place yesterday. It was laughable last year after the Ashes win to see suggestions that England were heading up the table to take over Australia’s deserved position of absolute top team. One simply just has to look on in awe of how Australia just never give up in complete contrast to the English way of simply playing quite well sometimes and completely losing the plot the rest of the time.

Why stop at Fletcher, hell, let’s lynch half the ECB! It was a travesty. Total foolishness all round. I cannot be bothered to read or listen to any of the damn stupid post match commentaries. We need some righteous arse-kicking here, but why bother? This team couldn’t fight their way out of a wet paper bag at this level. I think what upsets me most of all is the idea of millions of fans out there expecting a fight and getting let down - us Poms and you Aussies, and all the others too.

Still, I’ll be a tough Brit, stiff upper lip and all that, no whingeing Poms here. Have just opened a bottle of bubbly - bye, bye Ashes. At least I can get some decent sleep now.

There is a movement in Australia to grant Freddie Flintock amnesty for the rest of his life whilst English cricket selectors put some spin on their decisions.

I’d sheet the blame home to the selection of the team, and that squarely rests with Fletcher.

Giles did nothing in Brisbane, and in Adleaide he had the chance to select an attacking spinner. This spinner would have had two bites of the cherry, could have restricted Australias first innings runs chase, and place more pressure on them in the second innings.

That said, it was the second innings by the English batsmen that lost the day. Much has been said about Warne but he is bowling only average at the moment, Lee is fast but has gone for plenty of runs and McGrath was lucky with his couple of wickets.

A spot of Ashes-related “picking a spinner” absurdity:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2-2487553,00.html

(it might require subscription - dunno)

By Mr. Hurd’s own admission he “presented no threat whatsoever”, which makes him an ideal candidate for Fletcher’s next spinner.

the 550 declaration really shocked me… when you play against australia.. you don’t take chances.. get as many runs as possible in the first innings to secure yourself against warnie grenades in the 2nd innings.. i guess they wanted to show “intent”.. well.. they could have showed “intent” by playing more positively so that they could have scored faster to allow time to go over 600 runs..
in the 2nd innings.. england have a history of imploding… in pak last year they totally imploded chasing 170 odd and 200 odd..
fletch is to blame for the over all strategy but the players are to blame for this particular match.. these players could and should have done a better job on the 5th day.. jones and flintoff chasing balls.. fletch can’t help with that.. i’m sure his instructions were not to chase wide deliveries..
pietersen has a massive ego.. you don’ try sweeping warnie when you’ve just come in to bat.. nothing more embarrassing than being bowled around your legs.. wait.. there’s being bowled between your legs.. which warnie has done too..

Yet we can ignore the full bag of tricks on show by Warne?

Warne only took 4 wickets, yet he should’ve had Collingwood caught at slip, trapped in front, and we can ignore the countless times he beat the bat. Understandable where you come from, however I’d argue the mentally fragility came about due to Warne. England just never looked like scoring off him from the very first ball, after playing him beautifully the night before. To be honest I thought the decision to go into a shell came about because Clark and Warne became unplayable; panic set in, and the team capitulated.

Warne hasn’t been at his best, but in terms of sheer magic with each ball, the threat each ball posed and the tension created by him, and the sheer length he bowled from the Cathedral End makes me place this performace amongst his best.

We enjoyed Canada but autumn very late as here so probably global warming taking a real hold.Anyone in denial about this subject should perhaps have a long think.Dorset amost normal.Anyway liked the story on another link but prefered Will’s bank holiday ‘Clash’ interlude a while ago.I think some people took umbrage as it was ‘ball-tampering’time-we couldn’t agree at home on that one.But,using Mr.Strummer and co. again:’WHAT ARE WE GONNA DO NOW’.Clamp down we can’t.
At the beginning of the series I thought Mr.Boycott started to say some wise things.Firstly re:Jones/Reid. ‘Neither are match winners,so does it really matter who plays?’Considering the column inches spent on this sight alone[we are all guilty]which will end in cyberspace and presumably someone’s disc I now agree with our ex-pat Aussie friend.[Perhaps Reid should be given two games and toss for the third or send them to see Ayers Rock,Great barrier reef etc.and fly out Prior and Pratt for a game.[Come on,doesn't anything go at this stage].
Secondly,he said the same about Giles and Monty.I’m not sure about this.We will only know if Monty is given a long try.At least Jones isn’t the team scapegoat anymore;I suppose Giles will be next[for one missed cnance!],then Harmison-Pieterson’s name crops up a lot.
Steven Davies-Morris’s teams are good and even having Vaughan as a limited playing captain is not as daft as it sounds-in fact any order change is worth a try.
Anyway.Merry Christmas.