Udal, Loudon to tour Pakistan

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By Will 3 years ago, mid-September Leave a comment on this post

Thoughts on the squad? Shaun Udal and Alex Loudon both in the party.

Squads

England squad Michael Vaughan (capt), James Anderson, Ian Bell, Paul Collingwood, Andrew Flintoff, Ashley Giles, Steve Harmison, Matthew Hoggard, Geraint Jones, Simon Jones, Alex Loudon, Kevin Pietersen, Matt Prior, Andrew Strauss, Chris Tremlett, Marcus Trescothick, Shaun Udal.

England one-day squad Michael Vaughan (capt), James Anderson, Paul Collingwood, Andrew Flintoff, Ashley Giles, Steve Harmison, Geraint Jones, Simon Jones, Kevin Pietersen, Matt Prior, Liam Plunkett, Vikram Solanki, Andrew Strauss, Chris Tremlett, Marcus Trescothick

National Academy Squad Gareth Batty, Ravi Bopara, Stuart Broad, Rikki Clarke, Alastair Cook, James Dalrymple, Steven Davies, Mark Footitt, Ed Joyce, Robert Key, Sajid Mahmood, Liam Plunkett, Chris Read, Owais Shah, Tom Smith, Luke Wright, Mike Yardy

Tags: alex-loudon, england, england-in-pakistan, pakistan, shaun-udal, squads |

Comments to “Udal, Loudon to tour Pakistan” A P Webster wrote:
September 19th, 2005 at 12.58 pm

Surprising choices? Udall’s clearly a short-term fix.

A P Webster wrote:
September 19th, 2005 at 1.02 pm

I have to admit my concern that England don’t really seem to have a wealth of spinners - when you look at other sides, it’s probably the one area where England are behind.

Nick wrote:
September 19th, 2005 at 1.12 pm

I think it shows how short of spinners we are when the two main names being floated in the press this morning were Udal and Min Patel, neither of whom are in the first flush of youth. Loudon’s an interesting choice, though, if the reports that he’s got a doosra are true, but his average (40+) doesn’t suggest he’s too threatening, though he’s a capable batsman and it might mean they’re looking at him to fill the Giles role at 7/8 as someone who can hold up an end and bat well down the order rather than bowl a side out.

If I were Fletcher, I’d be looking at trying to develop Vaughan’s bowling some more - he’ll never be a frontline spin option, but he could hold up an end along with Giles while the quicks are resting. And it’s not as if the lack of a top-class spinner harmed the Windies much during the 70s and 80s, is it?

Will wrote:
September 19th, 2005 at 1.20 pm

No, true Nick - but it’s nevertheless alarming that we have to call upon Shaun Udal as a back-up spinner. I thought Swann would have got a look-in, actually…

A P Webster wrote:
September 19th, 2005 at 1.21 pm

A lot depends on Simon Jones’ fitness, and his abililty to reverse swing. I agree about Vaughan, but I can’t really comment on Loudon as I haven’t seen too much of him.

I am pleased to see Matt Pror getting a call-up though, in my opinion he COULD solve the Jones/Read conundrum.

As for the one-dayers, it’s all about bedding down a solid team in preparation for 2007. To that end, Gough’s place being taken by a youngster like Plunkett is a positive move.

worma wrote:
September 19th, 2005 at 1.24 pm

Nick, what Eng needs is a spinner who has a good ‘Pehla’ at least, forget the ‘doosra’ ;-)..with due apologies to Loudon about whom I don’t know much.

p.s. ‘Pehla’ is the hindi/urdu word for ‘first’ implying that the spinners need to have their stock delivery first before having the ‘doosra’ (meaning ’second’) which is their second option.

And yes, I agree…for batsmen comfortable with spin, Vaughan can be developed to be as much a ‘threat’ as Giles. But the problem is, if Eng don’t have someone better than Giles, still they can’t afford to replace him with a batsman(means overworking Vaughan) or a pacer(means under-utilizing atleast one pacer)

Geoff wrote:
September 19th, 2005 at 2.05 pm

Udal is a very good choice. The other options as ‘attacking’ spinners were essentially Panesar, who is still just starting his first-class career, and Keedy, who has been injured. Neither of those two can bat, either.

The county game has a phalanx of off-spinners who can bat a bit, or vice-versa. Swann is simply another of those, along with Batty, Dawson, Croft, Middlebrook, Dalrymple, and others who escape me at present.

Loudon has most likely been picked from these because Strauss was sick of being the poshest man in the squad. Apart from that, I can only assume that the selectors are impressed with his character (increasingly important for England selection).

Geoff wrote:
September 19th, 2005 at 2.09 pm

And as for Vaughan working on his bowling, well, I’d rather he worked on his batting.

Nick wrote:
September 19th, 2005 at 2.51 pm

Worma, good points - and I didn’t realise that ’second’ was all ‘doosra’ means! Thinking about it some more, I can see a long-term reason for Loudon getting into the squad, in that in the absence of a match-winning spinner, whoever’s selected has to be able to bat. Loudun’s batting average (30+) suggests he can be groomed to bat at 8, and they’re hoping that having him on the tour means the England coaches can get a chance to really work on his bowling in good spinning conditions and see if he’s got what it takes.

The key point is that, short of an English Warne or Murali turning up, the current crop of fast bowlers means the spinner’s not going to be the most important player in the side, and they’ll be looking for someone who adds balance to the lineup.

Vishnu Pavan wrote:
September 19th, 2005 at 4.24 pm

Too bad, the team can’t carry the “perfect substitute” with it.. Now if Gary Pratt finds a place in some club side in Multan/Karachi/Lahore and gets himself to Pakistan, would Fletcher draft him in to field… I would love to see Inzy (he doesn’t really need Pratt to get runout.. Does he?) get runout and walk off fuming…

David wrote:
September 19th, 2005 at 4.39 pm

I wonder how much Udal has benefitted from playing with Shane Warne at Hampshire this season. Different types of spinners obviously - but i’m sure he’d be an inspiration (and provide a lot of help) to any spinner of any age …

vezmusic wrote:
September 19th, 2005 at 5.34 pm

Udal is a definite horses for courses type selection which in itself is a relic of the old England (early 90’s). However it really does show what a vital player Giles is to this current side as none of the younger spinners can be trusted if Giles suddenly is unavailable. Spin is never going to be a major weapon for the England attack (at least for the foreseeable future) so the picking of Udal is a realistic and dependable selection. Loudon can be nurtured into a Giles but Fletcher doesn’t want him as the only option.

Wraye wrote:
September 19th, 2005 at 11.06 pm

personally, for what it is worth, am delighted that Udal, Dalrymple and Joyce are getting a look in. I have been following these boys on the county circuit and they deserve a go at international level.

worma wrote:
September 20th, 2005 at 8.13 am

Hey, can someone enlighten the ignorant me, why was the Academy squad named alongside the national ones? No connection to the Pak tour, is it?

And Nick, its wrong of Eng to accept nothing short of a Murali or Warne quality spinner, just because you have great pace quartet(which, btw, could be spread thin on the subcontinent). Look at Harbhajan, or Kumble, or Vettori. None of them is in the same class, but they can still win you matches.

And btw, about the reliance on great pace lineup, the problem is, Eng is using up all its pace bowlers in a single match. If you have an Oval kind of situation in Pak or India, where one of the quartet is missing, it can be dangerous (esp against Indian batting lineup).

Geoff wrote:
September 20th, 2005 at 9.05 am

worma: it’s just because these are the squads that define what the players are doing for the first part of the winter, and the county season is coming to a close. Also, it gives the likes of Batty and Key (who may have hoped to be in the Test squad) something to soften the blow.

S Jagadish wrote:
September 20th, 2005 at 9.58 am

I am totally thrilled to notice that my idol Ashley Giles is the best spinner in England by a few thousand country kilometres. So England get a 36 year old to partner a 32 year old.

I’m probably wary of making predictions now after the Ashes, but I think it is a totally stupid move. In any case, given the balance in England’s attack, I doubt if Udal would play a test. So why not send a 25 year old spinner instead?

Geoff wrote:
September 20th, 2005 at 10.15 am

They have sent a 25 year-old spinner, Jagadish: Alex Loudon. Udal is there should Giles be struck down by injury (no doubt caused by a vicious press comment), because he is experienced and in form.

S Jagadish wrote:
September 20th, 2005 at 1.25 pm

Ah, thanks Geoff. I thought the term ‘twenty-five year old English spinner picked for England’ was a bit of an oxymoron

In any case, if he’s there, why send in Udal, especially if Udal is very unlikely to play?!

On second thoughts, perhaps I’ll keep saying that Udal would never play. Perhaps Giles would then injure his arm while [ghost]writing his column and the world would be saved!

Will wrote:
September 20th, 2005 at 1.44 pm

Jagadish; sit down and pour yourself a Bitter Lemon

Chef wrote:
September 20th, 2005 at 3.14 pm

Udal has apparently been encouraged by Warne to bowl slower and spin the ball more this year, with some success. Spinners generally mature late-look at Warne’s returns this summer-so if Udal is the in form spinner and has an encouragingly attacking approach, then it makes sense to take him.
Intresting comment about the definition of “doosra”! If taken literally it takes the thunder out of a rant I’ve been boring people with all summer by moaning about off spinners re naming their bog standard arm ball variants doosra!

S Jagadish wrote:
September 20th, 2005 at 4.45 pm

Umm Chef, comparing Udal with Warne, although they’re both aged 36 or whatever, makes me vomit, and that’d be *in spite* of not drinking the bitter lemon William offered me.

The excuse that spinners mature late is nonsensical. How old was Warne when he graduated to the “greats”? He wasn’t much older than 30 when he was voted in the team of the *century*. How old were the likes of Murali, Kumble etc. when they rolled teams over? Or Saqlain, Kaneria, Harbhajan etc. for that matter?

vezmusic wrote:
September 20th, 2005 at 6.00 pm

Udal had to be picked really as he ticks all of Fletchers boxes as regards selection i.e he can bat.

Will wrote:
September 20th, 2005 at 9.46 pm

I’m afraid I’m with Jagadish on this one - a rare event in itself. Picking a 36-year-old spinner, while he might be the form bowler, says much about the dearth of spin in England. Sad, really. Jag - did you enjoy your drink?

vezmusic wrote:
September 20th, 2005 at 11.03 pm

Do you think we’ll actually play 2 spinners? I suppose taking 3 means we will but Udal could be a “just in case Giles steps on a randomly positioned ball in the warm up” selection. I agree its sad but it might be worth look what was the bowling attack when we last toured out there. Did we play 2 spinners then, I can’t remember?

vezmusic wrote:
September 20th, 2005 at 11.37 pm

I’ve taken some time out to research my last post regarding the 2 spinners on the last tour question. My thoughts are here…..

http://openingfielder.blogspot.com/

In conclusion it just pretty much proves Salisbury was rubbish!

Chef wrote:
September 21st, 2005 at 11.12 am

Compare Udal to Warne? I don’t think so! Nor do I think that just because Warne told him to give the ball more air that he’s suddenly become a match winner! Nor am I really that excited that he’s been picked!
True the likes of Warne and Murali rolled sides over from day one but my point was that spinners can improve with age and being 30 somthing isn’t necassarily an obsticle. Again I’m not comparing realative abilities with Udal but Laker was 34 when he took 19, Underwood was still going strong in tests at 36 and Fred Titmus was 43 when he got recalled!
It would be lovley if there was a young,potentialy match winning spinner in England,but there just isn’t!

Alex Holland wrote:
September 23rd, 2005 at 3.45 pm

So is Panesar to play in India this winter? Probably just as good a spin workout as anything the academy can offer.

Here’s one out of left field - how about KP as a spinning all-rounder? Cast your mind back, and he used to be a promising young spinner. This scorecard from England vs KwaZulu-Natal in 1999 makes interesting reading:

http://uk.cricinfo.com/db/ARCHIVE/1999-2000/ENG_IN_RSA/SCORECARDS/ENG_KZN_03-06DEC1999.html

KP takes the wickets of Atherton, Hussain, Vaughan and Adams. His final figures of 4-141 aren’t great, but he was 19 years old, and it was his first four day match. He hit a handy 61, too.

The development plan is simple - get KP to persuade his mate Warne to teach him everything he knows. Natural talent combined with Warne tutelage and that potentially hypnotic hairstyle… unstoppable.

Alright, it’s an absurd pipedream, but imagine England with spinning Pietersen and fast-bowling Flintoff, batting at 5 and 6 with Ed Joyce in at 4.

RL wrote:
September 26th, 2005 at 9.21 pm

It seems to have been overlooked that if Udal’s ban for attacking a member of the opposition on the field of play during a Surrey League match had been put into effect for all levels of cricket (not just club rubbish) then he would not be eligible to tour anywhere until at least next (English) season.

Geoff wrote:
September 27th, 2005 at 8.54 am

Alex: cast your mind back to the last of the Zimbabwe one-dayers. Vaughan, quite clearly taking the Michael, let Strauss, Bell, and Pietersen all have a go.

Bell picked up a few wickets by bowling straight at barely medium. Strauss served up a few pies but still only went for a few runs from his solitary over. So in this context of part-timers bowling and having reasonable success, how did Kevin Pietersen do?

Over ten an over, no wickets. Against Zimbabwe.

And Panesar’s off to see Bishan Bedi. Whether he’ll learn the finer points of spin bowling or the very best way to speak out to the media, I’m sure it will make him a better player.

Alex Holland wrote:
September 27th, 2005 at 10.41 am

Ah, you can prove anything with statistics! Let me have my pipedream

I’m pretty sure England still have KP bowling in their practice nets though, so presumably he’s slightly better than a tennis-ball machine.

Alex Holland wrote:
November 4th, 2005 at 8.28 am

Ha! Looks like KP has been reading my suggestions:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/cricket/get_involved/4403066.stm

“I’m going to be working really hard to become an all-rounder. I’m an off-spin bowler and I know I’ve been lazy. It gives England an extra dimension so it’s just a case of trying to improve. I’ve spent a heck of a lot of time on my fitness, on the mental side of the game and on my batting, but it is about time I spent some time on my bowling.”

The lad’s young yet, he might be an effective ODI all-rounder in four years time.

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Udal, Loudon to tour Pakistan